James, Nic and Sarah were joined in the studio by Edith Cowan University senior lecturer Dr Helen Cripps and her marketing students to talk about the future of marketing.

The students are Lydia Barley, Luke Beattie, and Natalie Woloszyn.

This was our first ever Brand Newsroom Facebook Live Stream event and unfortunately, we had some sound quality issues. So we apologise for the awkward audio. But please bear with us, because the content is fantastic. You can watch the live stream video here. And the full transcript can be found below.


On My Desk

  • Nic’s recommendation was Media Stable’s survey on the Australian media and public trust.
  • Sarah suggested following the #cathedralwars hashtag on Twitter and seeing the back and forth between the UK’s big cathedrals.
  • James recommended the BBC Business Daily’s podcast Kicking the Plastic Habit.


Brand Newsroom is a podcast for anyone who has a say in how companies are communicating — covering marketing, content marketing, public relations, media, branding and advertising.


Brand Newsroom marketing podcast facebook live event

Nic, James and Sarah with Edith Cowan University senior lecturer Dr Helen Cripps and her marketing students Lydia Barley, Luke Beattie, and Natalie Woloszyn.

Here’s the full episode transcript

James Lush: Hello, and a very warm welcome to a live edition of Brand Newsroom. It is a very special episode. I’m James Lush of Lush Digital Media. My usual heroes in crime are with us: Sarah Mitchell of Lush Digital Media and Nic Hayes from Media Stable. And we have a very special conversation to be had today. It is our first ever Brand Newsroom Facebook Live Stream event, so hello. If you’re watching online anywhere in the world, it’s wonderful to have you with us. And a special episode because we also have some special guests in the studio. We’re going to have a good conversation, a robust conversation, over the next twenty minutes or so with several people from Edith Cowan University. We’ve got marketing students Lydia, Luke and Natalie, who are going to join us shortly.

But first, their lecturer, Dr Helen Cripps, who is with us, too. With a marketing brain, and the marketing experience, and also sort of all the experience you’ve gotten in the outside world, we thought we’d throw to you as we talk about the future of marketing, and innovation and technology and in particular how that is really changing things. But let’s just get a starter from you in terms of how you think the marketing world that we have come to know and love is changing so drastically now.

Dr Helen Cripps:  I think the rise of all online data, which gives us some kind of indication of people’s behaviour, is important. I think online is real important for driving off-line behaviour. I think sometimes people think online and social media is a cure-all for everything, but it’s all about relationships as well and off-line experiences. But I think the biggest thing is that data that gives us much more indication about what people are thinking and feeling, and gives us a much better insight into our customers. And also our customers can speak back now. And I think that’s really important for companies that they understand that even if they’re not listening, people are talking about them.

James:  So those are the big changes in particular. Do you think – and this is sort of a look at whether brands are recognizing – do you think they’ve caught on to this yet and are really embracing it?

Helen:  I think some have and some haven’t. I think it’s also geographic. I think that the US is far more advanced, maybe Europe a bit more, and Australia it’s quite patchy. But it also depends on the industry. Two weeks ago I was in Croatia presenting to the ferry industry – as in moving people around – and they’re very slow on social and they don’t really understand it, that world. But there was one, a couple of cases, where they are doing it and it really helps with their customer service and customer feedback. And if you’re a customer-facing brand, you really need to be listening to what your customers are saying. Because customers really want to love brands and they want to be part of it now. And social allows that two-way communication and it allows people to feel connected and to love their brand.

James Lush:  So what’s your take on those brands who still think that going social is a ‘no, no, no’; they don’t want to do that? They don’t want to have any of their staff, for example, even going close to Facebook or anything like that.

Dr Helen Cripps:  I think that they should at least start by listening. And I think that’s really important. There’s all-over lurking and that’s really a positive thing, so listen to what your customers are saying.

I even tell executives often to set up their accounts and just follow people. Don’t do any direction, but just listen to what people are saying around that conversation. It is really quite useful. And put your toe in the water, but do it slowly. Don’t think you have to immerse on every single platform. You have to know where your customers are before you before you jump on a platform.

James:  We’re in a very different world to the one that we grew up in and when we were learning about marketing and the like and business in general. Would you say we’ve almost got to scrap those textbooks that we had then and say this a totally new marketing era?

Helen: Yes and no because I think the theories around marketing are still there. We are still people; we’re not bots and we’re not chains. We like to feel important. In a world where we’re very connected, sometimes people don’t feel important. And I think that online gives us a chance to focus in on people; make them feel important. And people want to have a two-way conversation.

I mean, I’ve been a fan of this show for a long, long time. But we’re doing this live and in real life. And we can have all the directions online we like, but it’s really when we get face-to-face that’s so important. So, don’t throw out the theory.

Nic Hayes:  I guess I’m a digital man. It is the most frightening thing to go away. at least hide in some corner, there’s no cameras on us or anything like that and it’s just going everywhere.

But, Helen, I’d love to know from your students’ perspectives, where traditional media still sits in the marketing game. Because, I mean, coming from a strong traditional media background, is it something that the students coming through… that they’ve got an understanding about branding? Do you still push it?

Dr Helen Cripps: Actually, there is talk, much more than the digital. The digital has been a bit slow in coming through because academia tend to sometimes lag. But it’s still the same concepts, and it’s not that traditional media is bad and social media is good. It’s just you’ve got a desegregation of the channels; you’ve got multiple ways to reach people now. And you have to know where your customers are and people still use traditional media. It’s actually very, very strong in Scandinavia like paper publications. And this thing around people like things that they’re familiar with. So don’t discount it; don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

James Lush:  I’m interested in when we talk to your students if they still have the same regard for traditional media as we know or whether it is all social media. Sarah, we’ve seen in the last few years, in particular our sort of… some brands in particular, have almost ditched their whole idea of traditional media and gone straight to social.

Sarah Mitchell:  Yeah, but I think ditching… I mean to me, social media is just an additional channel and it’s an additional obligation for brands and for companies to use. Now, some of your market may be there; some of it may be in traditional places. But I think what every company’s dealing with – and you’ll have…know this about traditional media, James – the audience is fragmented. And it’s fragmented in TV, it’s fragmented in the cinema, it’s fragmented in music, and it’s fragmented in marketing. So I think that we just have to be mindful of that to the point that Robert Rose had when we were at Content Marketing World: Brands have to make a decision about where the most value is going to be and focus on that. Because we’re just going to wear ourselves out if we’re trying to be all things to all people.

James Lush:  Which social media platforms, if there were any in particular ones, should brands be really focusing on in your view, Helen?

Dr. Helen Cripps:  It really depends where their customers are. So at the moment, I’m very involved in Instagram but that’s because that’s where my customers are. That’s who are my students and that’s my research area. But Instagram is about experiences; LinkedIn’s about professional. The really good thing is Facebook closed groups. Groups are really good, so if you can find one place to create a group, to create a tribe and find a communication channel that works.

James:  It’s difficult though because we’re all having our data that chances are to actually put time into this and do it properly is where the secret lies. How do you advise companies to recognize that it’s an investment well-spent rather than one of those things where it’s just a time sap?

Helen: I think they have to start really slowly and be aware of creating benchmarks for how they measure. Social is traditionally incredibly hard to measure, but there are ways of doing that. But, yeah, they just have to…I’ve done research around this and a lot of people don’t have metrics for ROI but they simply say they have to be there to be part of that community. And that’s something that’s really hard to quantify.

James:  And how are we measuring it? Because a lot of people are still getting high on the fact that they’ve had a million views rather than any business.

Helen:  And that’s…it’s gonna be…traffic is either going to be purchases online or foot traffic to your business or positive reviews. One of the strongest marketing tools is customer word of mouth – and it’s called virtual word of mouth now – so positive reviews and positive feedback online. People don’t trust brands; they trust people they don’t know. Young people trust their peers’ recommendations that they don’t know more than they trust marketing from a brand.

James:  Just a thought, given the fact that we’re so familiar now with the new role and everybody being aware. You have the experience and we see the need to go online to say whether we liked it or we didn’t like it or what we can do to improve. How do you think brands might embrace that and put on their website or their Facebook page an opportunity for people to comment on their experience they’ve just had?

Sarah Mitchell:  It’s really risky because if you open yourself up to comment, then you’re also opening yourself up to criticism and you have to be prepared to handle that. And what a lot of brands do and how they manage it is they just get a bunch of fake reviews. They get a bunch of their friends, and that backfires.

James Lush:  Why do we trust an Airbnb review? Or an Uber review?

Sarah:  Strangers with experience, as Helen said. Because we think it’s somebody like us, so they must…we trust them.

Nic Hayes:  You’ve got to take the good with the bad; there’s no denying that. You’ve got to take the good with the bad. You, I’ve heard many times on Brand Newsroom. The bad can be just as good. Because the reality here is that you can use…you know, I’ve got to say, we’re marketing to a very, very loud world out there. And we want people to see us; we want to get our [inaudible]…And the way that we deal with negative feedback is [inaudible] and can become our positive as well.

We discuss this a lot. I’d rather they’re all talking about us. And if they’re not talking about us, they’re also talking about our competitors. And I don’t want that.

James:  Helen, what would your take on this be? Could brands, for example, have a little conversation where people talk about their experience they had with them? When is that going to happen?

Dr Helen Cripps:  It’s already happening whether they’re involved in the conversation or not.

James:  Oh, okay.  

Helen:  So, I looked at a particular company in Croatia and there were all these reviews on TripAdvisor that they’d never read and people were talking about them whether they’re listening or not.  

James Lush:  Okay, let me just ask you one final question before we bring in the students. If you were to look and see how things were going to change in the next five years, what would be the biggest shift that we’d potentially [inaudible].

Dr Helen Cripps:  Algorithms. So a lot of stuff has been done by automation and artificial intelligence and you really need to keep looking out on the horizon and find sources of information. There’s plenty of information out there. But algorithms are really going to change the way social media and online media happen because we want to make sure… we don’t want to put more effort in; we want the machines to do it for us. But we have to be aware because there’s lots of problems with algorithms because they can also be biased as we all [inaudible].

James:  Helen, thank you so much. We’re just going to swap you out and we’re going to bring Natalie in, who’s one of the students who’s studying underneath you. And she can be interesting.

Nic Hayes:  Define algorithms. Algorithms scare the bejeebers out of me. The idea that the machines might take over…and the whole point around social. You know, you said it’s us engaging on social. It’s a platform to do it on. Algorithms scare me a lot.

Sarah Mitchell:  Yeah, but algorithms are controlling who sees you and who gets to hear you and who you get to hear from. So I think that’s why they’re so important.

And whenever we see a new channel come up, people flock to it because they say, “I’m getting better reach.” But what they’re really saying is the algorithm is more…it’s favoring me right now because the channel hasn’t figure out how to monetize [inaudible].

Nic:  Correct. And the algorithm and the channel [inaudible]. It’s all you’ve used. But audience…audience doesn’t at the end of the day stick with it. [Inaudible] come out and then disappear.

James:  Natalie, let me ask you, first of all, why marketing? I’ve got to find out why you’re interested in it in the first place.

Natalie Woloszyn:  I actually started with Health Science, which is completely different. And I just kind of made my way into marketing. I just thought it was really interesting. It’s changing with all this technology now. And I feel like it’s a really good industry to be a part of.

James Lush:  It’s changing so much. It is, definitely, especially your generation who are embracing new things that us guys are playing catch-up with, which is interesting.

What, in particular social media platforms, are you seeing as sort of the big things for brands?

Natalie:  I think Instagram is now taking off. It’s kind of incorporating Snapchat and also…yeah, Facebook and Instagram are going really viral. You can do sort of live news feeds now; you can do stories; you can tag locations; you can tag your friends. And really, and particularly for people like myself with side businesses, it’s really useful. And then there’s the analytics side of things, so I can actually look in and view who my target audience is. Are they male? Are they female? What are their ages? So, it’s really interesting.

James: So how is that helping you? You can be much more laser-like with your approach to who you’re trying to sell to? Who you’re trying to have a relationship with?

Natalie:  Yeah, and it actually tells me what is the best time for me to post my post. What times people are more active. What are they interested in?

James: So you’re far more [inaudible]. See, we say, “We’ll try this; we’ll try that. It doesn’t matter.”

Nic Hayes:  And as you know, I’ve tried just about everything and I give it a go really for about ten minutes and then I’m off to another thing.

But I’ve got to say, Instagram, seriously, you’re right it’s progressed beyond sort of Snapchat where people were all there. But Instagram lets you tell stories as well. Very, very powerful.

Natalie:  Or for a photograph or a video.

Nic Hayes:  Yeah, and with such…

James Lush:  But everyone is.

Sarah Mitchell:  I’m not.

James: So why…is that just your generation that you’re talking about?

Natalie Woloszyn: Yeah!

James:  No, no, no…but it’s…I’m so used to a quick visual. I haven’t got time for reading a piece of [inaudible].

Sarah:  That’s bollocks. I think that’s not true.

Natalie:  It can be an individual or a business, so Helen’s also on Instagram. So there’s still hope.

James:  Yes.

Okay, so, what is going to be the next thing? What is the… given the fact that every three months there is a big change. What is the change next?

Natalie:  Oh, well in this unit that Helen teaches, Current Issues in Marketing, I was looking actually into the augmented reality and virtual reality and geofencing. So, I feel that audiences[inaudible].

James:  You’ve lost me again. [Inaudible] geofencing. Is that like Instagram?

Sarah:  Yeah.

Nic:  [Inaudible]

Natalie:  Well, you really don’t know what’s next. So that’s kind of what all of the businesses are doing at the moment. So it’s really exciting what technology’s going to come out.

James:  What [inaudible] is a good storytelling [inaudible]?

Natalie:  I don’t know. Storytelling? Instagram?

James:  Okay, so you’re doing it that way?

Natalie Woloszyn:  Yeah.

James Lush:  Okay, there is still hope for us.

Natalie:  Yeah, definitely.

Nic Hayes: [Inaudible] It’s just a different way that’s [inaudible]. I’ve noticed clearly the [inaudible] that have been used have been fantastic. But [inaudible] to tell their story. And also one thing I do notice with Instagram is that you sort of cut the chaff: the Facebook, the big blue jug and all, that we all seem to be on. Just seems so much appetizing material. This [inaudible] quite specifically.

Natalie:  Yeah, definitely.

James:  Just a final word on your take on traditional media.

Natalie:  I still think it’s really important. Through my units at university, especially in International Marketing and Advertising, I mean, internationally there’s no social media. Like in China, they don’t have Facebook; they’ve got WeChat. There is still… I feel traditional media and newspapers – they’re still relevant depending on your type of audience.

Nic:  When was the last time you bought a newspaper?

Natalie: The other day, actually.

Nic:  Did you?!

Sarah Mitchell:  Good for you.

James:  And your peers would buy newspapers or not?

Natalie:  Probably not, to be honest.

Sarah:  But they’re reading. You’re reading articles online and things online. I think to say that Instagram is going to replace news or print is crazy. Just like TV didn’t kill radio and radio didn’t kill newspapers.

James:  But is everything you want on there now? So you’ll watch what you want, where you want, how you want rather than being told on a schedule when it’s coming to you?

Natalie Woloszyn:  Yeah, so everything that’s available automatically. You’ve got movies; you’ve got digital media. You don’t exactly have to have a copy of a newspaper; you can get it digitally.

James Lush:  So, TV and radio, sort of irrelevant to [inaudible] schedule.

Natalie:  To a point, yes.

Nic Hayes:  To a marketer [inaudible]

Sarah Mitchell:  But it is for me.

James:  It is for me, too. 

Sarah:  I don’t think this is generational. I think this is behaviour.

James:  I think we’re all accustomed to still not waking up to [inaudible].

Nic:  [Inaudible] and they’re scheduling; they’re podcasting; they’re putting it on at demand for the consumer now. But you’re right; we’re not as [inaudible] today. [Inaudible] We expect to be able to click upon it and have it be on demand.

Sarah:  And I think Natalie and her generation, the advantage that they have is you don’t have ingrained habits. So, what you’re experiencing is what we will all experience once we realize and somebody like you says, “Hey did you know you don’t have to wait until Friday night for that show to come on? Just wait until Saturday morning and watch the whole thing without…” So I think that’s the…

James:  We love that.

Nic:  Really?  

Sarah:  Yeah! I’m telling you – old people!

James:  [Inaudible] swap you out. I want to hear from a couple other of your peers.

Nic: Just on that…We’ve – as you said there – traditionally always…we just grew up with what was thrown at us and what we expected. But our generations coming through, we sort of changed our behaviours and habits compared to our folks and our parents before, so…

Sarah Mitchell:  But even our parents are changing.

Nic Hayes:  Yeah.

Sarah:  I mean, people…my parents were all over this stuff as soon as they figured out how to get on.

Nic:  Yeah.

Sarah:  As soon as it became available to them, then they were on. So it’s just an education thing I think. Because nobody wants to go back to, “I have to wait till Sunday night to watch my favourite show. And then I can only watch one episode.” Nobody wants to go back to that.

James Lush:  Let’s [inaudible] his take on things. What drew you into this crazy world of marketing?

Luke Beattie:  Well, I actually… so when I left high school a couple of years ago, I took a few years to figure things out, I guess. And then I thought – I kind of did a bit of a test on the… back then it was on the [inaudible] website, to see what kind of career path I could take. And it actually spat out marketing, so it’s actually a really good mix because I am quite a people person.

James:  Okay.

Luke:  I like to work with people, and different experiences and all sorts of…so, yeah, that’s how I sort of came about it and I’m glad I…

Nic:  So the algorithm found your job.

Luke:  Yeah.

Sarah:  Yeah.

James:  Exactly how algorithms work.

And Natalie’s talking about a very scientific approach to looking at a, sort of, marketing. Is that how you see it? The fact that everything is drawn by the numbers, the evidence, and then moving along that way?


Luke Beattie:  Yes and no. I think it is, in a way, but I think it’s not just scientific. I think it’s also an emotional response. I think it’s the way how you appeal to people emotionally. It’s what you do; it’s how you present yourself or your brand. Yeah, I think it’s emotion.

James Lush:  Give me an example of a brand that you have a warmth towards.

Luke:  Definitely IKEA, I’d have to say.

James:  IKEA?

Luke:  Yeah.

James:  Why?

Luke:  Well, I mean I work there, so…

CROSSTALK (inaudible)

Luke:  The IKEA way and how they focus on their customers and…

James:  What do they do well, in your view?

Luke:  I think what they do well is they remained really humble. Actually, I think for such a big brand, they like to consider themselves such a small, tightly knit company. I think that that works really well because you can really give it your all to your customer base, no matter how big they are.

James:  Do you think people love them?

Luke:  Yeah, I think it’s a really love relationship. There isn’t a really hate one, I think.

James:  I agree. They’re very polarized. There’s the love… obviously, kind of talk it out. What do they do well in, for example, social media?

Luke:  In social media, I think what they’re doing well at the moment is…well, they’ve actually released a new app. It’s called IKEAplace. So, what your use is for that is you’re using AR, which as Natalie was saying what we learn is a new emerging trend. Manage to target people who may not – especially in Perth, you don’t have access to the store. Maybe they’re two hours away and they want to see how a couch fits into their living space. How a bookcase looks.

James Lush:  So, this augmented reality is effectively putting most of the store in our living room.

Luke Beattie:  Yeah. Life-sized as well.   

Nic Hayes:  So, you’re trying before you’re buying. Virtually. It is amazing.

James:  How well does it work?

Luke:  Really well, actually. It actually works on the new Apple iPhone. So, you can see on the new iPhone, they’re really doing the push for AR.

James:  So, this is something that they’ve arranged, but not a lot of other brands. I mean, would you have any others sort of jumping onto this?

Luke:  Not too many. I mean a lot of brands I think will catch on, because I think as a leader…

James:  Our assumption is that none of them are very good until it’s sort of a year or two down the track. But you’re saying it’s really good?

Luke:  Yeah, it’s really good now. Yeah. So I think… because it’s great, like I was saying, for people who can’t access the store. But especially for countries where… it could be, for example, in China. There’s millions of people living in China, but maybe only four or five stores within the metro area that are scattered about with access. Yeah, so it really makes it accessible for anybody.

Sarah Mitchell:  I love that idea.

James:  I do too.

Sarah:  Because I think a lot of the examples that we’ve seen for VR and AR are all around tourism. And it’s really easy to get people excited about a holiday; I’ve always said that. But if you can get me IKEA merchandise without me having to go through the maze of the shopping experience.

CROSSTALK (inaudible)

Sarah Mitchell:  I don’t have anything against IKEA and I really quite like their marketing. But to go into that store on a Saturday morning…

CROSSTALK (inaudible)

Sarah:  Oh my gosh, I think it’s great.

Nic Hayes:  It’s the perfect marketing (inaudible) till the very end.    

James Lush:  (inaudible)

Sarah:  But it infuriates me because I feel like I’m being tricked. But this allows me to not and still…

James:  (inaudible) at all. I mean (inaudible).

Sarah:  No, I’m not good. I don’t…

Nic:  (inaudible) is very good. Once you get to the end you (inaudible).

Sarah:  You don’t have to go through the maze to get the meatballs.

CROSSTALK (inaudible)

James:  Luke, thank you so much. Really good insight. You have to follow the corridor around and out, OK?

Sarah:  Yeah, thank you.

Nic:  (inaudible) take as long to get out as it does to go through. But, you know, IKEA does it so beautifully. And it’s a good case in point because the icon that they are (inaudible) selling houses. And to sell furniture, it’s a great way to…

James:  Lydia, are you going to extol the virtues of AR and VR and (inaudible)

Nic:  (inaudible)

James:  Where are you in all of this?

Lydia Barley:  I recently go into all of this with the Current Issues in Marketing unit, so it’s quite new to me. But I can’t believe how much has been done already. There’s even clothes stores – take an image of yourself or hold the camera phone and it puts the clothes on you.

James Lush:  No way. You don’t even have to try them on.

Sarah Mitchell:  Yeah, I’ve seen those.

Lydia Barley:  People are just getting lazier and I think that’s why AR and VR are doing so well.

James:  But the point is, is it going to help sell more? Is it going to get a better relationship with the brand?  So it’s all very well to bring technology in, but is it going to make a difference?

Lydia:  Well, I think it depends on what you’re selling, as well. I mean, the way they’re doing AR and VR is all about convenience. So, it’s not as much about connecting with the brand. I mean, when you go into a store – like IKEA – and walk through and talk to the staff members, it’s more building a brand there. With AR and VR, I feel we’re quite disconnected from the brand and it’s more about convenience.

Nic Hayes:  One thing about the tech side of everything here and in marketing is that I think that it does distance ourselves from the relationship – the human relationship – that we’re having. And I always use the case in point is I love going into an Espresso to buy coffee pods because it’s just a good experience. This is…there are very two different sides of the spectrum here that we are talking about.

James:  What’s your take on traditional media?

Lydia:  Well, I do see it’s still important. But I even see now with my university degree, it started off as ‘traditional media, traditional media’ and now as I’m coming out of the degree it’s ‘write blogs; make videos; get into social media.’ And, again, I don’t think traditional media will ever be replaced, but it’s certainly dropping in importance. And I know personally with my business: social media all the way. Social media influences; that’s the way I’ll be going.

Sarah:  Lydia, could I ask you what different skills do you think marketers are going to need in the new era? I mean, you said you’ve already seen a difference between the time you started your marketing degree and then. So, what kind of skills do you think people need to be focusing on?

Lydia Barley:  Digital.

Sarah Mitchell:  Digital. But what does that mean? What is a digital skill?

Lydia:  Video creation. That’s a big thing as well. I know two of my assignments this semester are focused on producing videos. And that’s new to me. And it’s very big with companies now; they’re always trying to get that viral video that’s going to make them stand out. So, video creation, without a doubt.

And I think communication skills: learning how to connect and communicate with customers, and through social media building relationships. Communication is still really big. In that sense, I think it will all be digital media creation and keeping that communication.

James Lush:  Nice

Nic Hayes:  Thirty years ago I did (inaudible) and video was the big production, making it and (inaudible) and storytelling. And I think that’s changed now because we are digital – not all of us. Some of us are about the written word, but also when it tells a story (inaudible).

James: (inaudible) that’s why it’s handy, isn’t it?

Lydia:  I feel entertaining – entertaining videos – are the way to connect, without a doubt.

Sarah:  Yeah.  

James:  Let’s just wrap it up. Thank you so much.

We’re just going to finish today – given the time that it takes – with On My Desk. We’re just kind of the three of us with a little something to share as we always do on Brand Newsroom. But, Nic, you go first.

Nic:  It wouldn’t be me if I didn’t do something self-indulgent.

Sarah: True. 

Nic Hayes:  (inaudible) Actually, coming up we’re doing a survey on media trust at the moment. So around who do you… which media do you trust and which media format or brand (inaudible) program do you go for? It’s on our Facebook page; we’ll have this in the notes. It’s designed for those under the age of 25 because we want to know and understand which media that they’re using. And we know traditional media is falling off; there’s no denying that. But there are other spaces that you’re going to and it’s good for the media to know. I don’t think media’s dead by any means; that traditional media’s dead. But you’re right, James; you said it. They’re got to change; they’ve got to get with it because these guys are flying through and (inaudible) and telling better stories.

James Lush:  Right. Sarah?

Sarah Mitchell:  Look, we haven’t heard too much about Twitter today, which is my personal favourite. And my On Your Desk is a fantastic example of brands telling stories and promoting themselves. It was around World Architect Day. It was something that happened very spontaneously. If you look at the hashtag cathedralwars, St Paul’s Cathedral in London put out a post about why they’re such a great cathedral. And, quite spontaneously, the other cathedrals in the UK started to pile on and it was a cathedral war and it’s really funny. They were really creative. They were doing things in real time. They were putting all kinds of digital photos inside their…there’s one where there’s a cat coming out of the top of one of the cathedrals. And then around the world people started piling on.

It happened on October 5th. Hat tip to Dan Hatch; I saw it in his Twitter feed. But it is probably the best thing I’ve seen on Twitter. It was so much fun.

James: Awesome.

Mine is a simple podcast. I’m a big fan of Business Daily, which is a BBC production. They did an episode last week, which is brilliant, given the fact that we were talking about technology and modern-day problems. This one’s called ‘Kicking the Plastic Habit’. It’s about how everyone – businesses, individuals – they’re just trying to get their head around how this single-use plastic can become something of more value. It’s a brilliant podcast.

I suggest you listen to that series, which is a daily production.

We made it.

Nic Hayes: We did.

Sarah Mitchell:  Yeah, awesome.

James Lush:  Our first-ever Brand Newsroom Live Stream. Thank you so much for watching. Thank you to our guests Dr Helen Cripps and marketing students from Edith Cowan University. Wonderful to have you slipping in and slipping out of the picture. Thanks for everyone watching online.

If you’d like to know more about special Brand Newsroom special events. We’ll have, obviously, other ones in the future. Hopefully, we don’t have a post section where it says ‘do not ever do that again.’ We will do it again.

Sarah:  Yeah, let us know.

James:  You can, of course, subscribe to Brand Newsroom on our website, which is brandnewsroom.net.

Big production team: Rhys Waywood, Gavin Carroll, Jesse Bartlett, and Dan Hatch have made this all possible.





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